Pathfinder Online

[Malikai]

Found this interesting in one of their endless blogs. More tidbits are at https://goblinworks.com/blog/

Theme Park vs. Sandbox PvE
Pathfinder Online has a primary emphasis on sandbox style content. In brief, that means that your character's actions will have persistent effects on the game world, that you'll be interacting with many other players and their characters, and that you'll be able to self-direct a lot of the challenges you set for yourself, creating interesting stories using various objects and systems in the game as you see fit.

Many people think PvE content is necessarily "theme park" style content. In other words, your character won't have a lasting effect on the PvE content, and you'll be expected to play in a reactive mode, responding to scripted challenges created by the developers as opposed to the actions of other players. We do see a place for some content like that in Pathfinder Online; the idea of "dungeon modules" is deeply engrained in the tradition that Pathfinder embodies. But we also think there are interesting ways to develop sandbox PvE content too.

Dungeons

"Dungeon" is a catch-all term that refers to any enclosed space for adventuring. It need not be a constructed space; it could be a natural cavern or even a forest, jungle, or other terrain type. Typically, dungeons are designed so that they become progressively more challenging as they are explored, often culminating with a materially hard challenge at the end. A variety of obstacles must be overcome to reach the end content, such as monsters, traps, locks, illusions, hidden doors, puzzles, and complex interactive events involving the denizens of the area....

What we'd like to do with Pathfinder Online is combine an open world approach to design with this kind of theme park content. As you explore, you may discover a dungeon entrance. So long as you don't go inside, that entrance can be found by other explorers. Once a character enters the dungeon, though, that entrance becomes "locked" to that explorer; other characters won't be able to find that entrance. A character with access to an entrance can form a party and the party can enter the dungeon as a group.

If nobody finds the entrance, or none of the people who find it enter it, the entrance will be removed from the game world after a fairly short period of time, and it will respawn elsewhere. If the dungeon is entered, it will remain in the game world a longer period of time. If the final challenge is overcome, the dungeon will be removed after a short interval (giving you time to make several trips to and from the dungeon to haul out the loot within)....

Some dungeons are small areas that are randomly created by the game. There will always be a certain number of these in any given hex. That number will fluctuate based on conditions in the hex. As they are completed or abandoned, they'll be removed and respawned automatically. As you explore, you'll always have a chance to find something interesting.

Other dungeons are larger and more complex, and are generated as a result of the questing system. When a character receives a quest that involves a dungeon, that dungeon will be generated in the game world, but it will not be discoverable for anyone except the character with the matching quest. A party of characters, though, can share their quests so that more than one individual can search for the entrance. Generally speaking, the only characters who will find and adventure within these kinds of dungeons are those participating in a given quest. When the dungeon is abandoned or completed, it will automatically be removed by the game.

There's a third kind of dungeon, the largest and most challenging type. These are often designed to have several different entrances, each of which could be discovered by a different character, and shared by several parties. While exploring this kind of dungeon, you may very well encounter other characters! Fight, parlay, flee, or join forces—the results are up to you. Challenges in these dungeons may even require coordination between groups to complete—one party might have to fight through a room of undead to lower a magical barrier so that another party can access a different part of the dungeon...

Wandering Monsters

Not all PvE experiences take place in dungeons. The Crusader Road area is home to many monsters, and they don't always live indoors.

When you're engaged in harvesting a resource, you'll attract wandering monsters. The longer you harvest, and the rarer the resource, the more challenging those wandering monsters will be. Every harvesting expedition thus becomes a PvE experience.

Some hexes will have encampments—areas where monstrous humanoids have taken control of a space. Encampments begin as fairly small, easy-to-destroy sites, but left unchecked, they'll grow, become better defended, and produce more and harder opponents. They'll eventually escalate, spreading new encampments around the hex, and those encampments will develop as well. If you don't take care of your kobold problem when its small and manageable, you could end up with a full-blown kobold infestation making life hard for the whole hex. Finding these encampments and eliminating them will be a constant source of engagement.

Occasionally, a really dangerous monster may appear, something that is so tough that many characters working together will be needed to kill it. Think about a dragon, elemental, or demonic outsider as examples. These creatures can rampage all across a hex, dealing death and destruction until a large enough band of heroes assembles to take it down.

The Design in Summary

As you find and explore theme park content you should have the sense that you're accomplishing something meaningful. And there should be enough of it that everyone who wants to can engage with it. The results of those encounters should lead towards integration with the rest of the game world and create interesting moments of interaction with other players. PvE shouldn't be an isolated pursuit of just a small cadre of specialized characters; it should be something that many characters interact with as they develop and pursue their objectives.

[Nybling]

Yeah, I guess this game could be interesting. But I can't see it being too different than DDO, especially since the rules are roughly the same with only some balance changes/clarifications in Pathfinders rules.

[Malikai]

I am just drawn to it because of the stark contrast from copernicus' zero info. Goblinworks openly invites community feedback, even allowing the community to name one of the starting cities, and shares every step of the development process. Not entirely sure either philosophy is the way to go, but I do enjoy the information flow.

Part of that process being a Kickstarter Project to raise money for a tech demo to further boost investor interest. In less than 24 hours they raised the 50k needed to fund the demo.

[eidos]

I support them, but the information provided doesn't really mean that the game will end up the way they want it to and building too much on community input could end up being chaotic.

[Albatros]

Been following this for months.
I could be way off, but does it sound like a neverwinter type ?

[DeathtoGnomes]

i was reading somewhere, that they were developing a different technology here and the the demo was made to show it off. Atelast I think it was this demo.

[Malikai]

Latest blog entry is up. This time its more focused on the design process of "Thornkeep" and some of the lore surrounding it.

https://goblinworks.com/blog/

Yeah, Eidos, that was my initial concern as well. So far its pretty well limited to open discussion and community building more than actually taking design direction from any joe that wants to throw his 2 cents in. They are only looking at around 4500 players at launch, with a strong sense of community in place in which to build from and grow over time. They have a design plan in place and make it abundantly clear this wont be a game that the "masses" will enjoy, but at the same time dont want to wall themselves off from those that will enjoy it and can give valued insight before things are set in stone.

@Albatros, yes and no. At the core, game play will follow more traditional standards while Neverwinter is jumping into the "action" side of things. Rule sets will be similar obviously, for class features and the like, but they recognize a lot of that rule set wont translate into online territory, and they are more than adamant about "not" making a ddo clone. So look for a lot of the pnp rules to change and if you want a comparable game look for them to borrow and improve upon some of the systems and features of EVE online.

The update on the Kickstarter Project. After reaching the 50k in the first 24 hours they went ahead with new goals and new incentives, the final being a dungeon level added to Thornkeep designed by Ed Greenwood.

[agra]

I've had a chance in the past few weeks to review the Pathfinder RPG differences from DnD, as well as review the available material and developer postings on their forums.

Unfortunately, one thing they're not making explicitly clear is: This is a FFA PVP game. Think of it as Mortal Online, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Eve, and UO, in the Pathfinder world/setting.

You can be killed pretty much anywhere in the world at any time, and the best part? You have a few (2?) minutes to get back to your corpse, or you lose everything in your inventory you weren't wearing at the time of death. And... the person that killed you gets a portion of your inventory as a reward for killing you. And there are places in the world that are lawless, so no faction/alignment hits for the murderer. (guess how much of the world is lawless?... Yeah ... a lot)

So, eyes wide open, those interested, if you're not there for a hardcore, always-on, FFA 1v1 PvP, Pathfinder Online is not for you.

Which is a damned shame, in my opinion, as all the mechanics other than their horrific attempt at PvP sound really good.

If they fix this PvP/Death system, I'll take another look. Until then, not a chance in hell would I give this game 1 more second of consideration.

[Leorwen]

So, eyes wide open, those interested, if you're not there for a hardcore, always-on, FFA 1v1 PvP, Pathfinder Online is not for you.

OMG...sounds amazing!

[agra]

OMG...sounds amazing!

Indeed! I fully expect it to be full of the same level of amazing as UO, Shadowbane, Darkfall, and Mortal Online were.

And the same dozens/hundreds of concurrent online players each title currently enjoys, too. heheh.

Maybe when there are five open world ffa pvp sandbox failures, people will think twice before making another one? Nah, probably not.